depth of field question… need some advice

[supernovavfx]

I do so much depth of field effects in post where I "fake" it for the most part.   Now I have a project its PERFECT for

 

and I'm embarrassed I can't get any results.  Yes.. i read the manuals directions multiple times.   I thought it would be as 

 

easy as the fog setting… where you could indicate it starting at 3000 and ending at say… 5000     Does anyone have

 

a semi straight forward set of steps to actually get results.  I know it involves motion blur in some way…   my camera moves

 

and comes to rest on a broadcast logo and i simply want what goes on behind that logo to slowly defocus…. essentially...

 

I could "fake" it again but I really want to do it "authentically" in EI

[Buggsy]

Hi Scott,

I looked at this in depth (no pun intended), back in version 6.5 I think it was. At that time there was a bug in it and it wouldn't render properly. It appears to work properly now.

If you want I can email you the EI file to glean the bits from it you may be missing and or help you through the parts needed to get it to work.

Michael

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Scott,

I always used the Fog pass to use as depth field layer in AE.

Thanks

Tom

[thingmaker]

I have never really been clear on the best way to do this either. I have tutorials from early versions of EI using Fog and there is also Ian's video in the EI Tutorial section but it is older and quite involved as you have to change all of your materials to white. 

 

There is a export type called .EIZ which exports a file similar to the Fog pass but unlike a true camera where there is a 'sweet spot' which goes out of focus before and after, "the .EIZ is the depth from the object to the camera plane." That is what the manual says but how does it determine which 'object'? It must mean from the camera to the camera plane. I have tried expanding this grayscale depth map in Photoshop using levels to control the depth but the number of grays is too narrow.  Tom isn't this what the .EIZ format is for? -Derryl

[supernovavfx]

i think the fog pass is the way to go…    I don't want to sound critical…. but this is something that would be great to have working easily in EI… so much hi end work uses these lens effects.   So maybe in EI 9.5 or 10??? :)

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Scott,

 

You have the Depth Pass in Layer shaders too.

 

Thanks

 

Tom

[supernovavfx]

when i have time ill look into that… I was not sure how easy it was to use the layer shader.  Where do you apply it etc….

[Thomo]

Depth Pass!

Where is that in layers shader.

 

Am I missing the key ingredient to true DOF in EIAS?

 

Please let me know about this one!

 

Thanks in advance.

[meester smeeth]

Just add 'Fog' in the layers shader, you'll get all you need to do your depth of field in post!

[Thomo]

Ok thanks very much, I'll test it out.

[Thomo]

Taken me this long to come back to this.

Where is "fog" in the layers shader. I can't see it.

 

Sorry but is there something I'm missing?

Can I get the "sweet spot" with this? ie: out of focus in foreground and background, middle ground in focus?

 

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

[Buggsy]

Hi Thomo,

 

Double click on the EI_Layer.shl shader. This will open a dialogue allowing you to set different parameters. In the 'Add' button, in the bottom left of this dialogue, you have the option to add 'Fog' which you can then prescribe a PSD Mode to.

 

Michael

[S. Houtzager]

Don't see why the Planar Z-Depth format doesnt get used more.  With just one click you can get a black and white image that defines the depth of objects.  There are lots of tutorials on the web on how to use it in Photoshop and AE and adjust to taste.

 

[KurtF]

Was that one Anti-Aliased? I can see stair stepping in the image you posted, which might be why it's not used as much as the black fog pass.

[S. Houtzager]

Yea I noticed that too. It doesn't affect the blur though as long as there is no blank areas.

[Thomo]

Ok so what is the DOF shader used for?

The graph doesn't make any sense. Or does it?

 

Yes we do have DOF from camera to subject to background.

 

What about foreground, to selected mid-field focus to background.

So "fog" is THE answer? Another render pass yes?

 

You've got me stumped.

[Reuben.F]

I use Planar z-depth quite a lot but usually for stills, I found that the lack of AA can cause a problem when used as a depth selection in PS, TIP: render out the EIZ file at 4x your target resolution then scale it back down in PS, the result is nice smooth edges.

 

Sorry to go slightly off topic.

 

Reuben

[Thomo]

I use Planar z-depth quite a lot but usually for stills, I found that the lack of AA can cause a problem when used as a depth selection in PS, TIP: render out the EIZ file at 4x your target resolution then scale it back down in PS, the result is nice smooth edges.

 

Sorry to go slightly off topic.

 

Reuben

I gotta admit I reckon you have baffled me on each of those anagrams. Ok EIZ is easy enough. But....?

Is this a question or an answer?

Geez I'd hate to be a neewbie on this topic!?

[Reuben.F]

Simply an answer to the lack of anti aliasing on the EIZ image, last time I checked EI doesn't do it- so that is kind of a manual solution, render it 4x larger and scale down.

[Thomo]

Ahh Ok.

I was reading TIP as another anagram.  :blush:

Thanks for clearing that up.

[supernovavfx]

In no way do I want to sound critical of EI... but there really does not seem to be an 'easy' depth of field solution in camera...   I admit I'm a simpleton with this... I just one to pick a 

 

distance from the camera to the area of focus... then pick the 'size' of that area of focus.... period.    I really want to incorporate more of that in my work but I'm somewhat 

 

confused on these work arounds.   Fingers crossed on the next V of EI.

[Thomo]

Ahh it's all been asked before!   :shy:

Makes sense but I'm not sure that anyone has a real answer.

As far as I can tell, no EIAS does not do it, not even with the DOF shader.

 

I would be the last person to criticize but I asked this question 18 months ago.

[Thomo]

Don't see why the Planar Z-Depth format doesnt get used more.  With just one click you can get a black and white image that defines the depth of objects.  There are lots of tutorials on the web on how to use it in Photoshop and AE and adjust to taste.

 

Ok but I still don't see how any of these "work arounds" give a true DOF in relation to focal length.

What if I want to focus in the MIDDLE GROUND?

So therefore I would have the FOREGROUND blurred, the MIDGROUND in focus and the BACKGROUND blurred.

 

Am I missing something? Z Depth or Fog don't solve this scenario as far as I can see. Please tell me if I am wrong.

 

Does anyone have a clear answer to this question please?

Many thanks,

[meester smeeth]

Try out the' RPF saver' shader and make sure Z buffer is checked in the options.

 

You'll get a rendered file in the .rpf format which you can take into After effects and make good use of the 3D Channel effects.

 

Here's an example using the Depth of Field - https://www.dropbox.com/s/t5b12md5nvk0z1k/rpfDof.mp4?dl=0

 

One slight drawback is that it blurs the very outside edge of the render frame so you will need to scale it up slightly, 1% was enough for this eg.

 

Another way is to use the 3D Channel extract as an alternative to DoF and use this as a Luma Matte for some camera blur.  This way doesn't give the blurred edge either but is a little bit fiddly using the sliders to get what you want.

 

One way or another you will get your animate-able middle ground!

[meester smeeth]

Here's the Luma matte eg. - https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ab2k06dfd1ysv1/channelExtract.mp4?dl=0

 

You'll get this from the same .rpf file in AE.