feedback

[vic3d]

I want to make this my best render ever. Here is what I have, please send any suggestions you can think of to make this image look like a photograph. Thanks.

Oops it didn't upload, but here is a link then. Sorry about that, don't know what happened.

[Buggsy]

Hi vic3d,

Nice shot. You could maybe improve it as follows:

1. The camera angle makes the scene feel a little too distorted. Maybe make it a little more regular.

2. The people in the foreground and in the centre of the couches look a little too bright for where they are standing/sitting.

3. The texture behind the right reception counter doesn't look right.

4. The ceiling is too perfect on its plastered surface.

5. Timber floor on the ground would likely have some reflection/fresnel.

6. Material on the left of the scene (maybe suppose to be a timber material) looks too large and unnatural.

7. Ceiling timber looks too bumpy.

8. Front desk on the right of the scene lacks interest.

9. Open space outside right hand side needs some background images/noise.

10. Tiles in the foreground look a little too reflective.

Michael

[vic3d]

Thanks Michael, I'll post again with the changes.

[Gigayoda]

Hi Vic,

Nice render. Michael covered some good areas.

1. Upper left brightness feels a bit forced the light bleed makes it hard to differentiate if the center 2 floating light panels are floating on the left or attached.
   
2. Between top light panels lights are hot on the material.
   
3. The store in the background with the blue sign is hard to make out what it is. Is it fictitious or a real store? If its made up use type that stands out or insert a layer that allows the sign to pop
   
4. Add receptionist behind the table on the counter on the right facing the guy that seems to be looking for a receptionist
   
5. Tone down reflectivity on the floor just a bit add mild bump imperfections.
   
6. The perspective in the car / camera angle makes it seem like its a limousine if its a sedan the lady coming through the door has an odd scale to the car or vice a versa. She is either casting a long shadow or is missing a shadow/reflection. With intense lighting i guess no shadow may show.
   
7. The flowers in the middle of the furniture seem to be floating no shadow on the where it sits. Adding a petal on the surface adds realism.
   
8. The calla lily flowers near the lady sitting down may be worth adding to each table or opposing corners.
   
9. The balance has the left 2/4ths a bit heavy on content 3/4ths open and the last 4th somewhere in the middle
   

This is more of a question but the wood flooring in the middle is it meant to be seamless to the floor or a bit elevated? Some back story to see if I should judge against an airport, hotel, mall or business lobby. I think some sort of LCDs under Torre El Forjador could also add some visual interest to balance the visual weight.

Finally something I've experimented with and have had good results is treating it like a photograph at the end. You can use light room and make it seem like you are developing a photogrpah to add a bit of soft focus around the outter edges. I've even played with similar filter like instagram to add grain and visual flair.

Awesome job.

[RichardJoly]

Good question with good answers. The kind of post I like, it benefits everyone! Thank you all :D

[Mark Johnston]

Hi I agree I thought it looked great and it does, but comments made me look closer, and I agree with comments could be even better, with some suggestions applied. Thanks for sharing Guys

Mark

[vic3d]

The process up to this point. I'll start making the improvements tonight, will post again soon. I am having trouble getting a realistic blurred reflection for the floor. Any tips?

The project is a hotel, with retail and some office space. This is the lobby to go up to the office tower.

Thank you all for the help, it is priceless.

Vic.

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Vic,

Now, you have 2 options to blurred reflections:

First: (Reflection Blur)

Group Material / Second tab of “reflectivity”, Raytrace Options / Reflection blur Control /

Reflection Blur is interesting when the Angle is small, otherwise the render time will be really slow.

Second: (Glossy Dull reflections), the group doesnt need to have reflection in the material:

1) Group Material / Specular tab / click in GI Glossy (“dull reflections”) Big reflection Angles

2) Enable it, You can use bigger Angle sizes.

3) Enable it on GI Window

Thats it, Glossy is faster than Reflection blur for special cases, like Big reflection angles.

Projects attached, please, render both, GI Glossy and GI reflex:

GI_Glossy.zip

Hope that helps

Thanks

Tom

[vic3d]

Thanks Tom, I'll give it a try. Here is another angle from the same project.

[vic3d]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aguilarpierri/8294953276/in/photostream

 

Here is an update for the lobby.  I tried to make all the improvements you all suggested   I gave the ceiling a texture but it is barely visible at this resolution,  I promise its there, haha.  I have just noticed I forgot the receptionist again, sorry.  But go ahead and tear this image to pieces please, all I learn here I will use for all the other renders of the project.  Thanks.

[Thomo]

Hi Vic,

Some quick points on some very good responses already. I agree with Richard, this type of post is great for everyone.

Nice rendering and good improvements from good suggestions.

My little bit of input would be;

 

-GI Glossy for "blurred reflections", Tomas always has the right answer! It's a great add to V9 and quick and controllable. 

-Are you using Photons for lights? If not, I strongly suggest you do. Fast, good looking and very flexible for lighting setups.

- Lighting setups; quadraric drop-off with lights, customise tab in properties, both great and easy to use once you get the hang of it.

- Modelling; round or bevel edges and vertexes in all elements. Specular highlights (sometimes very subtle) make good in roads towards photo realistic final images.

- Specular and Normal or Bump maps with textures are important. These are all subtle effects but I find lots of subtlety adds up to a more photographic result. I use "CrazyBump" at the moment (there are others) to generate spec, normal, displace maps from your texture maps. Free to use. 

- The "I Store" in your image looks like it has an interior with a mapped plane, the perspective looks wrong, maybe it is a reflection over the top but within EIAS, adding polygons as models is not a render time problem I find. Especially the ability with V9 to download or buy pre-modelled and textured .obj files to add in.

- Fresnel reflections with glass add more subtle realism I find.

- HDRI, especially with the new sIBL with V9, can be a great way to light a scene to start with. Then add special lights for interior lighting (with photons).

-As previously mentioned post process can add realism. Personally I use colour correction, blur, noise, chromatic abberation, vignetting and depth of field (DOF. The layer shader in EIAS seems really good, I personally haven't figured out how to use it for me, the manual is perhaps confusing me, I'm sure I'm just missing something) there are other ways if you Google it.

- Ambient Occlusion I still use (some would argue) http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/index.php/t-461334.html

-Gamma 2.2, Linear workflow (LWF). To me this is critical for Arch Vis. (some will argue). EIAS doesn't output full floating point yet but the workflow is still very relevant.

NB: The new texture filter shader in V9 makes this process very easy (regarding "stripping" gamma from textures "on the fly").

 

This link is ok, I had a great one I can't find right now, maybe post later. http://www.ronenbekerman.com/linear-workflow-made-simple/

 

-All of these are very subtle effects which add up!

 

- My final suggestion would be to set up a scene with simple primitive objects first. Get your lights working and then add detailed models. This method I find very, very useful.

 

I hope some of this is as useful as the previous posts, good luck with your best render ever. Its all practice.

 

I actually never knew this part of the forum existed. Doh! Great thing to have.

Merry Christmas,

[Thomo]

Forgot to add.

Copying photos is great practice. I find a lot of Arch Vis work is observation of the real world and in your case real photos.

Cheers,

[Thomo]

A couple more links I can find right now.

 

Feeling like a bit of a nerd working the weekend before Christmas now.

 

Hope some of this helps,

Cheers

 

http://vimeo.com/8119194

http://3d.about.com/od/Creating-3D-The-CG-Pipeline/tp/8-Tips-To-Increase-Realism-In-Your-Renders.htm

[vic3d]

Thanks for all the tips Thomo, great links too.  I have lot of homework now to do over the holidays.  :)

[vic3d]

A couple more links I can find right now.

 

Feeling like a bit of a nerd working the weekend before Christmas now.

 

Hope some of this helps,

Cheers

 

http://vimeo.com/8119194

http://3d.about.com/od/Creating-3D-The-CG-Pipeline/tp/8-Tips-To-Increase-Realism-In-Your-Renders.htm

Thomo, would you recommend taking the gamma correction out of my texture files in photoshop before rendering?  Is there a way of doing that in EIAS?  like making it darker in the shader tab maybe.

[vic3d]

Well I tried setting the Output gamma to 2.2 and darkening some textures to .455 in the diffuse tab, but that didn't work.  I don't have V9 yet by the way.  Should I forget about linear WF if I don't have 9?

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Vic,

 

I work with Gamma and the new Texture Filter shader to do renders like these ones in EIAS 9, all these renders are Photons + Irradiance:

 

http://www.eias3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/17_10_v3.jpg

http://www.eias3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/BATH-v2_v3.jpg

http://www.eias3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/02_11_v3.jpg

http://www.eias3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/09_13_v3.jpg

http://www.eias3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/07_15_v3.jpg

 

Thanks

 

Tom

[vic3d]

Amazing images.

[Diego]

Ola Vic,

 

I work with Gamma and the new Texture Filter shader to do renders like these ones in EIAS 9, all these renders are Photons + Irradiance:

 

http://www.eias3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/17_10_v3.jpg

http://www.eias3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/BATH-v2_v3.jpg

http://www.eias3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/02_11_v3.jpg

http://www.eias3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/09_13_v3.jpg

http://www.eias3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/07_15_v3.jpg

 

Thanks

 

Tom

 

Ola,

 

Very interesting lighting and color mapping, have you applied the Texture Filter shader as camera Map?

 

Thanks

Diego

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Diego,

 

Only in the Kitchen image, all the others, I choose some specific textures to control.

 

Thanks

 

Tom

[Diego]

Ola Tom,

 

I really like the light of the dining room image , the curtains and shadows are very realistic.

 

Would be nice to know the lighting set up you used for this picture.

 

I also curious about the curtain material.

 

http://www.eias3d.co...10/09_13_v3.jpg

 

Thanks

 

Diego

[Thomo]

Hi,

Happy New Year to all!

I can't seem to get email notifications going for this forum so sorry for any delayed responses. Seems to have been a problem for a while!? Anyway.

 

Tomas's responses are spot on in my opinion. The new texture filter shader is the way to go for linear work flow, ie working in Gamma 2.2. (it's also great for other things too!)

 

I apply it to every texture (cut and paste) with the appropriate settings. I put it first in the list of textures of any material and it affects all textures below it. (Modify RGB, power R2.2 G2.2 B.22).

So in answer to your question Vic, no I don't "strip" the gamma from textures in PS. The texture filter in EIAS V9 does it with ease. In V8, well yes you would have to adjust all your textures in PS or some other.

 

The reason I find gamma 2.2 so useful is especially interior (and exterior most times) scenes such as yours is the adjustment of lights. Every light adjustment becomes much more predictable. Otherwise "fill" lights are needed everywhere. Which in my opinion forfeits the realism you questioned firstly.

Light drop-offs etc. become "seeable" with each adjustment.

[S. Houtzager]

One question Thomo, how are you adjusting the final image?  Are you going into Photoshop and adjusting levels?  The only issue I have is that it is just a hit and miss system.  You have to guess at how the image will look "after" the final adjustment. Thanks.

[Thomo]

Hi Steven,

I am not sure exactly what you are asking but..... Yes I do some post work in Photoshop. Using exposure and raising the gamma initially. 

I mostly render to a "beauty pass" and add chromatic abberation, ambient occlusion (an overlay from an EIAS output) and colour correction in Photoshop. Some other adjustments sometimes.

As EIAS does not render floating point at this stage it is not a "true" solution to use LWF.

I find that lighting is more responsive when rendering in gamma 2.2 within EIAS using LWF.

Not sure if this really answers your question but hope it helps.

Thanks.

[vic3d]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aguilarpierri/8385640272/in/photostream/lightbox/

 

The image so far.