Buggsy

Ok. have learnt a number of great tips in getting the rendering times down. Problem - Procedural shaders chew up a lot of rendering time (I know Tomas, you've told me before). In actual fact around 45% of the rendering time (ouch). Solution - Render texture maps of the elements with a procedural shader through the top, side, back and front view ports and apply the resulting .img files as texture maps. Where I can't do this I keep the procedural shader. Problem - Anti-aliasing level 8x8 and sampling 2x2 too high increasing rendering times. Solution - Keep anti-aliasing at 4x4 and sampling at 1x1 but modify remaining procedural shaders to be smoother reducing flicker. Problem - Want raytraced Transparencies. Solution - Turn off receive shadow on each group (I know this one, but forgot about it). Rendering times per frame with my computer systems is now: 640x360 - 9mins 1280x720 - 20mins (78% reduction from previous rendering time) 1920x1080 - 38mins (wahoo!) Rendering times for 5 seconds of animation with my computer system should then be: 4 hours at 640x360 9 hours at 1280x720 16 hours at 1920x1080 Next frontier will be external renderings where I use OnyxTree. Thats going to get ugly! Thanks everyone for your individual comments. Michael

With architectural work the variety of surfaces means I pretty much need to raytrace shadows, reflections and transparencies. I can sometimes leave the transparencies as phong but when you compromise on the rendering level it effects the overall image. As stated I am after eye catching, gob smacking, professional quality, polished stuff and I need a roadmap to get this in the shortest possible timeframe. Michael

I have 4 slaves setup on this machine. When rendering an animation though you can only render 1 frame of animation per slave. Currently this frame takes 1hr 30mins. I always use Renderama but I'm not sure how this could change the rendering time. I have assigned the full 2048MB per slave. When I render using all 4 slaves I leave the machine alone knowing that I've used all 8GB of RAM the machine has. My hard drive has 700GB of free space. Michael

Here's my first attempt at reducing rendering times on a project I've just completed the stills for. I want to create an animation in order to work out pricing and as a benchmark for all the other projects I want to animate. As usual the rendering times are no where near the 5 or 10 mins that a lot of people relate but I'm not too unhappy with the image quality. I'd hate to try a frame at 1920x1080. I can't upload the snapshot via my FTP at the moment so I'll add it when I can. Results are as follows: EI Version - 8.0 Machine - iMac i7 Resolution - 1280x720 Number of polygons - 330,000 Rendering - Raytrace Anti-aliasing level - 4x4 Sampling level - 2x2 GI Primary Rays - 150 GI Sampling Area - 2x2 Area Lights - 4 Area Light Primary Rays - 100 (for all 4 lights) Area Light Photons - 300k each light Spot lights - 14 (Buffer Shadow, internal lighting), 1 (Buffer Shadow, external sun) Radial light - 1 Secondary Rendering time per frame - 1hr 30mins The rendering time is still too painful for production. I want at least 20 seconds of final animation but this will take 7 days just in rendering time. By contrast if I can get a rendering time of 10mins it will only take 19 hours rendering time. I don't want to let go of quality so I need to know what else I can do to get these times down? I think in my mind that if I could get a rendering time of 20mins I could live with that. Michael

Thanks Tomas, Some of my rantings are tongue in cheek but others are real questions. I'll try to explain them as well as possible. What is a realistic resolution for high quality animation? What is a realistic target rendering time per frame for high quality animation? Do I need to be really focused on reducing number of polygons in my scenes? How can I reduce number of polygons but retain a high quality result? Is Final Cut Express HD the right application for what I am trying to produce? How many stages do I need to go through to develop an animation? How do I create fast previews when the "Preview" function doesn't seem to be able to control frames per second output? How do I even use the "Camera View" window with the "Preview" function if the "Camera View" window doesn't seem to function properly? My scene is often all black or parts of the model is turned inside out. I don't have Cull Back Faces turned on. I am using ArchiCAD and perhaps there is a better work flow for importing so I can effectively use the hardware rendering engine. I have played with Perspective Clip but it just seems to end up a mess. I can email a Preview so you can see what is happening. I seem to have this funny thing happening where if I have selected something my "Camera View" window goes black but when I deselect the item the window restores to the lighting set selected for the "Preview Lights". iMac i7 OS 10.6.8 8GB RAM Maybe I just need to work through all the bugs I seem to have to give me a better chance at developing a workflow that increases efficiency and decreases the level of impatience. Michael

I have consistently been using EI since 2001. A large amount of my income these days comes from using it in my architectural services business. I have struggled though with the time frame required to produce a quality animation. I don't know if it's my approach, my skill level, incorrect use of the software or just that I am demanding too much from EI. My quicktime movies never seem to be smooth, I have to wait an entire day to render 5 seconds of animation, I don't understand how millions of polygons is talked about like it has no bearing on the rendering speed when it has a big impact, to get a good quality image without grain and noise requires rendering times in hours per frame even then when I import it into Final Cut Express HD the resulting quality is compromised, I can't seem to get a video onto my youtube channel that doesn't glitch and jump, #@!*&.............Ahhhhhhhhh............. Ok, what are the secrets, who's been hiding them from me all this time and how do I purchase them or get them? I have done a lot of animations but I guess my problem is what is a realistic production time for a given quality of video. What is too long a rendering time, per frame? Is Final Cut Express HD my problem? Is wanting a rendered resolution of HD (1920x1080) why I'm feeling frustrated? Should I choose a lower resolution with better anti-aliasing? Please feel welcome and free to let me hear what everyone does. I want to add animations to the services I offer. I'm not talking about dodgy animations though. I mean eye catching, gob smacking, professional quality, polished stuff. I think EI can do it, it's just probably me that is having troubles finding the way. Check out our website where you can see some of my adventures into animation and the architectural still stuff we do. http://www.goodbuildingdesign.com.au/ Michael

Excellent stuff Mike! :) Would be good to see them all together on a chess board in their full glory. Michael

Yes that's the right approach Gigayoda. I normally dial down GI Primary Rays Count and Area Light Primary Rays Count. If I've set the anti-aliasing high I dial that down also for the snap shot. I also use the cropping snapshot tool a lot. What would be good is a preset that you could invoke on demand that allows to jump to a quick preview mode and back to final output. Sometimes I end up rendering a final shot only to find I left the anti-aliasing to low. Michael

Preview snapshots aren't able to be split into strips. Version 9 though appears to be multi-threaded (proper multi-thread from all accounts) which means your snapshots will be fed to as many processors as you've got via one camera. This will improve snapshot speed enormously. I read about this in the manuals way back in version 2.7 or 2.9 and have waited for the last 10 years to see it implemented. Call me patient or call me dumb. I don't mind either could apply. When animating you can't split single frames of an animation to multiple camera's (strips) but you can feed all 6 camera's rendering 6 times as quick in essence. Painful thing there is you may be waiting a long time for your final frame of an animation to be finished if it starts rendering after the other 5 camera's have finished their frames depending on how long your frame takes to render. I think this makes sense. Michael

Thanks Richard, you were quick off the mark. You must have learnt from Tomas and replicated yourself as well (ha ha). Thanks Steve I did fail to tell everyone that they are static shots and not animated scenes. It would appear as though I could do it in 2D but I'm sceptical of the overall result. Using 2D people in scenes always grates on me because getting the lighting right on a 2D image is difficult. I'd plan the shots and go to my local shopping centre and take photo's but I might be escorted to the local police station under suspicion of terrorism. Michael

How do I represent the interiors of retail shops within the shopping centre? Is it just with 2D images or do you really have to model the interior of shops for it to be effective. I have looked at some of Ian Waters images and it's hard to tell if they are 2D images or if they are modelled? What about signage. I don't want to use actual retail brands, that may land you in court? It hasn't been told to me who the other retail store owners are apart from the main supermarket in the centre. Should I make it a condition that I find out who the retail shops are going into the centre? Any help with this would be much appreciated. I believe I could do the job very well but I need to budget properly for it and know what I'm in for before I commit to a price. Michael

Can anyone point me to a good product that has 2D people that I can purchase to add to my renderings in photoshop? I am pricing to a large shopping centre and I need a comprehensive collection of people for the scenes. Michael http://www.goodbuildingdesign.com.au http://www.facebook....182068598497628

I'm amazed time and time again how quick Tomas and his support team help the users here and new comers with resolving their troubles and issues using EI. I'm sure I speak for most on this forum in expressing thanks and wishing him and the EI team success in their support and development of EI. :D Michael

Thanks Richard. I do have the floor part of the model but I've realised that I had it linked to my Master Material for the white timber parts of my scene hence the reason why it looks funny. I've remedied it and added two area lights with photons to light the lower deck area. Do you have a missing floor towards the cabin end of the boat? I see on your model the cannons in this location are also floating. Michael

Updated shots. Texturing just about complete. Does anyone have any idea how I can remove the water from inside the boat. It's not a good look. Tomas is there any way I can get the fog and smoke in my scene to reflect in the water? I've now got to do those pesky sails Richard. I saved the image you posted to use as a guide. I've applied some deformations to the sails at the moment but I need to do more. I'm hoping to do 2 or 3 of the 4 "codes". The idea is to compose the models and light the scene to portray the paragraph. You can see the codes on this link. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=185&t=1009720&page=1&pp=15 Will continue to post updates. Michael

Updated shots. Still texturing but getting closer to 'happy'. Some of the textures are running in the wrong direction but will fix them as I go. I also don't know how to improve on the sails. They are bugging to the point where I am thinking of re-modelling them. Let me know what you think and where I can improve. You can also follow this Captains Log lighting challenge directly on this link http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=185&t=1009720 Michael

Thanks. :) Water is transparent with raytraced refraction, second yellow plane some distance below to simulate a sandy bottom, transmission, boat wake displacement and diffuse photoshop created wake (water paint brushes, needs some displacement to bring it alive yet), reflectivity and the NX shaders for the wave displacement and colour variation. I have worked further on the scene with more texturing and will post maybe just a link here to the CG Society forum. I need to work on a wake at the front of the boat. Not sure how to do this with EI anymore. Once you could use Power Particle Pro and Mr Blobby. Anybody got any suggestions? Michael

I haven't put enough reflection blur on the door paint so the stainless steel door handle is reflecting a little too strongly. I have been meaning to re-hash ArchiCAD's GDL for the handle part because it isn't modelled right. I have a list of accessory items that I want to model (light switches, power points, floor lights, couches etc) and I'll attack the door handle scripting language then so I get a better looking handle. Thanks for your comments. Michael

Hi Everyone, Some of my latest work for an apartment renovation I designed here in Australia. I did a single shot some time ago which is in the EIAS Gallery. I was encouraged by some of the comments so I decided to push the modelling and complete the scene and do multiple shots. I hope to do a number of lighting moods with the scene now at varying times of the day. Project Stats: 2.3M polygons 7 Area Lights 60 Spot Lights Silo for modelling accessory items ArchiCAD for the building and furniture Photoshop Hope you like it. Michael

Hi Everyone, Some of my latest work for an apartment renovation I designed here in Australia. I did a single shot some time ago which is in the EIAS Gallery. I was encouraged by some of the comments so I decided to push the modelling and complete the scene and do multiple shots. I hope to do a number of lighting moods with the scene now at varying times of the day. Project Stats: 2.3M polygons 7 Area Lights 60 Spot Lights Silo for modelling accessory items ArchiCAD for the building and furniture Photoshop Hope you like it. Michael

I love christmas time, not because of the jolly old fellow, but because it gives me an excuse to do some of the lighting challenges on CG Society. The latest one is 'Captains Log' which I have started to texture and light. It's currently lit as a day time shot with the focus at the moment on texturing. I'm hoping to also do a foggy mystical kind of lighting and a late afternoon sunset shot with a blazing red sailors warning. Here is my start. Hope you enjoy it. Some project stats: 1.7M polygons NX shader with displacement for the sea. GI, with the Ocean as an excluded set and with receive shadows turned off. Michael

I love christmas time, not because of the jolly old fellow, but because it gives me an excuse to do some of the lighting challenges on CG Society. The latest one is 'Captains Log' which I have started to texture and light. It's currently lit as a day time shot with the focus at the moment on texturing. I'm hoping to also do a foggy mystical kind of lighting and a late afternoon sunset shot with a blazing red sailors warning. Here is my start. Hope you enjoy it. Some project stats: 1.7M polygons NX shader with displacement for the sea. GI, with the Ocean as an excluded set and with receive shadows turned off. Michael

When you turn on Global Illumination, the 'Receive Shadow' option for any group it doesn't work. It's as if it's only available while not using GI. Is this a bug? I need a work around as I'm doing a scene on the sea and water doesn't really receive shadows from other items. Michael

When you turn on Global Illumination, the 'Receive Shadow' option for any group it doesn't work. It's as if it's only available while not using GI. Is this a bug? I need a work around as I'm doing a scene on the sea and water doesn't really receive shadows from other items. Michael

I'd like to have multiple projects open at the same time, able to copy and paste materials, objects, camera's etc between open projects, preset workspace layouts ( I think it's too flexible at the moment), an auto save function and proper undo and redo. That's all I can think of right now. Michael