Northern Lights Plug-ins

[bwcc]

Does anyone know the status of the Northern Lights Plug-ins? Is there any chance the new ownership could convince them to release a working version of Dante?

brian

[Arketype]

To release a "working version" there needs to be info on what is not working.

I think there are users who are successfully using Dante and v8.

If you have some small projects that demonstrate problems, then the issues can be more easily addressed.

See this post for file upload info.

http://www.eias3d.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=74

In addition to the sample project, please include a text file which lists a series of steps that reproduces the problem, as well as your computer specs, OS, and EIAS version information.

Thanks,

Dave

[bwcc]

To release a "working version" there needs to be info on what is not working.

I think there are users who are successfully using Dante and v8.

If you have some small projects that demonstrate problems, then the issues can be more easily addressed.

See this post for file upload info.

http://www.eias3d.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=74

In addition to the sample project, please include a text file which lists a series of steps that reproduces the problem, as well as your computer specs, OS, and EIAS version information.

Thanks,

Dave

Hi Dave

I uploaded the file to the ftp "Dante EIAS 8.zip" It's about as simple as can be. The only object is a default Dante emitter.

Open the Dante plug-in, check on the "renderama mode" when you close the plug-in it should automatically create the particle database "Dante-1.dat".

Copy "Dante-1.dat" to the sockets folders of any or all slave cameras.

Send the project to renderama, hit GO, it will render a few frames then each Camera will get a memory error.

MacPro 2 x 3GHz Quad-Core, 18GB memory, MacOS 10.6.2, EIAS version 8.0.0,

I have 8 local slave cameras and 4 cameras on a networked G5.

thanks,

brian

[Tomas Egger]

Ola,

Just moved your file to FTP / BUG Folder / Plug-ins /

Thanksss

Tom

[Northern Lights]

Has anyone else tried this? Anyone try it on a non-PowerPC machine? Anyone try it across a network rather than on a single machine?

[bwcc]

Any word on this yet? Is there any chance it could ever be fixed?

brian

[Tomas Egger]

Ola Brian,

Just tested your sample project in my MacIntel, 10.5.8 OSX

1) Open your prj

2) Open Dante Plug-in

3) Hit Apply button

4) move your timeline to a ramdom frame

5) do a snapshot render

If you only do a snapshot, you will have the same error, you dont need to use Rama.

Thanksss

Tom

[bwcc]

Hi Tom, the error occurs because Dante in the project has the "Renderama Mode" checked on. If you turn it off it should advance and render correctly.

The project will render perfectly without using the "Renderama Mode" but that's really problem. Any Dante project will render without Renderama, I think it will even work in Renderama if you don't use "Renderama Mode" but then the particles get generated out of order.

To get the particles to generate correctly in Renderama you have to use "Renderama Mode" but then it won't render. As far as I can see, the problem is "Renderama Mode" and apparently what it does hasn't changed since its inception. But, whatever it does worked just fine in EIAS 6.5 but not in 7 or 8.

brian

[Igors]

Hello Brian

Is there any chance the new ownership could convince them to release a working version of Dante?

No, only NL can release a new vers of any their plug-in(s).

But, whatever it does worked just fine in EIAS 6.5 but not in 7 or 8.

A general explanation is simple: unlike 6.5, versions 7 and 8 are UB and can run on Intel Mac. It can be a prob/bug in plug-in or host. In last case we'll confirm bug and fix it ASAP - but we need an info from Blair about what and how does not work. All plug-ins use same API and we could not know where is a prob in this concrete case.

Note: if you can check it with EI7 PPC-CFM vers - please do, it's a helpful info for developer.

[bwcc]

Note: if you can check it with EI7 PPC-CFM vers - please do, it's a helpful info for developer.

Hi Igors,

what's is this? I have tried it in Version 7 on a G5 (PPC) and I get the same error. Not sure what the "CFM" is.

thanks,

brian

[Michael B.]

Hi all,

I tried it on a iMac, OSX 10.6.2, EIAS 7.01, and Rama (with 2 cameras) rendered all 299 frames without error.

Before starting the rendering 'renderama mode' has to be unchecked. Otherwise the camera preview wouldn't show anything, and the rendered movie would also be empty.

Michael

P.S. I also had this error in my last Dante project (also with unchecked rama mode). I will load it into the bugs forum.

---

same on G4 Dual, OSX 10.4.11, EIAS 7.01 PPC CFM - rendering without errors

[bwcc]

Hi all,

I tried it on a iMac, OSX 10.6.2, EIAS 7.01, and Rama (with 2 cameras) rendered all 299 frames without error.

Before starting the rendering 'renderama mode' has to be unchecked. Otherwise the camera preview wouldn't show anything, and the rendered movie would also be empty.

Michael

P.S. I also had this error in my last Dante project (also with unchecked rama mode). I will load it into the bugs forum.

---

same on G4 Dual, OSX 10.4.11, EIAS 7.01 PPC CFM - rendering without errors

Hi Michael - thanks for the info, but according to NL you have to use "Renderama Mode" or else you get animations like like the one attached.

http://files.me.com/brianwhite3/l7gp7a.mov

Apparently "Renderama Mode" writes the particle data for each frame so then then each Camera can recall the position of particle based on the frame number.

I rendered this animation with Renderama Mode turned off. And the particles are generated out of order. I also got the error as the frames were rendering but as long you keep clicking ok it will render. I have heard that if you reduce the memory for Camera, the error will go away but that's not a solution. I have projects where 2GB isn't enough.

thanks,

brian

[Michael B.]

Hi Brian,

sorry, I think I didn't explain right what I have done.

1. check 'renderama mode' - close plugin window (Dante calculates the database file)

2. copy the database file to the slaves sockets folder

3. uncheck 'renderama mode'

4. start rendering

So I thought that Dante has all infos for proper particle rendering. But also in my test there is some flickering that shouldn't be there.

http://architekten.werkhaus-nuernberg.de/EIAS/DanteTest.mov

Michael

[Igors]

Hi again

CFM = "Code Fragment Manager". Why "PPC CFM", not just "PPC"? Because PPC specifies hardware (kind of processor) only. CFM makes clear that is an old format (not Universal Binary) of application. You can run UB app on PPC as well.

We played with Dante31 a little (EI8 Intel Mac). Yes, if "Renderama Mode" = on, then nothing does work as Michael said. Obviously this mode is intended to calculate all particle once ("baking" in fact) but anyway it's optional. We're not sure the created file is used at all if "Renderama Mode" is off. It makes a sense to keep it off, remove all temp files and test. At least without Rama we see everything is Ok and plug-in is fully functional. We didn't notice API-specific problems (although they are possible).

[bwcc]

At least without Rama we see everything is Ok and plug-in is fully functional.

Hi Again - this is true, I think it has always worked well without renderama. But, that's a little like saying I have a fully functional car that only uses first gear. Sure, it works and runs but it's effectively unusable. I have 12 cores for rendering, a fairly basic 10 second animation at 30 minutes/frame would render in about 10 hours. Without renderama it's 5 days. Clients just won't wait that long.

I have been using Power Particles Pro and it works in Renderama by writing out a separate file for each frame. It's just such a shame that Dante, which adds so much to EAIS, is basically useless by what seems to be a very fixable problem. Even if NL doesn't have the need or desire to fix it, is there anything that could be done in EI? If I can display each frame correctly in EI, could that information be saved in the individual frame control files for the animation? Or something like the way PPP does it?

I know I'm grasping, but I am desperate.

brian

[Igors]

Hello Brian

1) In host you can export a sequence of FACT files (although we're not sure about motion blur)

2) As we've understood "Renderama mode" is an optional feature. Try to turn it off, remove all temp files and render with Rama. Yes, it forces more calculations but it can be acceptable.

3) About "shame". From our experience a support of temp files is really hard (espeially in view of distributed render). For "Parametric Surface" plug-in we could not support animation at all because it required in several times more work.

Universal solution in host (baking, "Gnome") was proposed in 2006, then in 2008. No luck yet. Ok, "The life is a long song" :rolleyes:

[bwcc]

2) As we've understood "Renderama mode" is an optional feature. Try to turn it off, remove all temp files and render with Rama. Yes, it forces more calculations but it can be acceptable.

I have tried this many, many times without success. I really don't know, but I think what happens is renderama might render the particles correctly without Renderama Mode, only if it just happens to begin and end each frame in order. Like if you render in rama with only one Camera, it finishes a frame then begins the next. You can use more Cameras if each frame takes the same amount of time to render. But, like in most real jobs, one frame may take much longer to render than others. So a Camera can render one frame while the other Camera could render 2 or 3 in the same time, this gets the generated particles out of order. The more Cameras you add, the more likely it is to get out of order. This is what "Renderama Mode" was designed to fix and it did. Then EIAS updated to UB and broke it.

brian