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Ultra High Definition (4k) work


interstellar
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Hi Everyone,

 

I have been asked to consider rendering some projects in the ultra-high-definition format, 3,840 x 2,160 pixels, for TV.  The guy who asked me has a track record with several networks, one of which must have asked that his next production be in 4k.

 

Has anyone rendered to that format in EIAS?  Do you have any opinions on the future of this format?

 

I'm leery of working in a format that isn't commercially established yet.  The reviews I have read are mixed, but a Wikipedia article indicates that media producers, broadcasters and manufacturers are heading in that direction.

 

I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or experiences on 4k.

 

Joe

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4K is on it's way very fast.

 

TV sets are becoming cheaper, under the 1K$ mark and with HDMI 2.0 some can be used as computer screen with a decent refresh rate. Alas we will need faster machine to render those big pictures and the best video cards, like in the new MacPro.

 

Apple could do a great move by launching a new MacPro model with dual CPUs (not necessarily Xeon class) and just one high-end video card. It will still fit the small form factor that seem so important to Sir Yves and it will be much better suited for  4K 3D jobs.

 

Maher

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Time is fleeting.

 

Man, we are glad, that we can manage FullHD right now, that the computers are

fast and cheap enough to do work in 1920x1080, we have terabytes of HDs, we

do multilayer renderings and compose them in FullHD in nearly real time, we dont

care about rendering -lets say- 5million polygon and don't see any edges at round

objects, we do fast shadows and ray tracing, we use millions of particles to

simulate smoke, fire, water, we do test renderings in FullHD (just for customers) we

don't care about growing backups in the range of petabytes, and so on, and so on, and so on...

 

And now they want us to multiply it by 4.

 

I am too old for that (sh*t).

 

My eyes don't see 4k, only when i am sitting 1 m in front of my FullHD TV...

 

Maybe i should better use my pencil and brush in the future and let

younger and smarter people than me do 3D animation in 4K.

 

Alex

 

PS: of course can EI handle 4K!

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Hey Alex!

In the 90s, a friend of mine bought a 9gb Hard Drive. He paid a fortune for it. People told him it was stupid, it would take him Eons to fill it up...

I was a VHS guy... I saw the arrival of DVD, 720P (My aging home projector...), Full HD, 2K and now 4K... 

Every time a boost of resolution arrives you reverve the new rez only for very special productions. Then, after a few years, it becomes standard and with new computers and drives you can work easily at those resolutions.

Now comes 4K television...

To appreciate this kind of resolution will I need a 96 inches screen? Can I really appreciate 4K vs 2K home projection? Could be, I never had the chance to experience it.

If people can see the difference, they will want it. Will we go to 8K home TVs? I doubt it. We will in a Movie Theatre. There is such a thing as too much resolution. When you can no longer see the difference, it's too much. Now, what about a 250 feet Stadium Screen? Does it needs 8K? You don't look at these type of screen from 12 ft away, you are VERY far away. I doubt 8K would serve a purpose. http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/24/texas-motor-speedway-screen/

I know we can do it. Do we need it? Wanna see my 36 inches laptop...?

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Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for your thoughts on this.  Tomas, I believe the 4k format has a pixel aspect ratio of 1; that is, square pixels.  Alex, I feel the same as you - it seems I just got good at standard HD and now they want us to go past that.  Maher, all the articles I've read agree with you that 4k is coming fast.  One source said only 60,000 4k TV's were sold in 2013 but they expect almost 3 million will be sold this year.  Netflix will be setting up 4k streaming of movies soon, etc.  Richard, I haven't seen a 4k TV yet but one source says you will need at least a 55-60 inch screen to see the difference between standard HD and 4k.  Still, a lot of sports nuts want an acre of TV on which to see the Super Bowl, so maybe 4k TV's will be hot this week!

 

Joe

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There's a limit to the number of pixels you need and it's your retina who defined it ;-)

 

One of my university buddy, who's working at CAE, Montreal, was in charge of the best VR headset ever produced for their flight simulator. To prevent computing an unnecessary high definition picture for the whole field of view, they choose to draw a global 1024 x1024 pixels for the peripheral vision and by tracking in realtime the fovea of the subject, they recalculate on the fly a high definition portion of that global picture in 1024 x 1024, just for the yellow spot, the most sensitive portion of the retina for details. At the time, the prototype was able to achieve half the equivalent resolution of a human eye...

 

They've made another prototype with the same resolution than the human vision but they dropped the project after 9/11 when the techno bubble bursted! I wasn't able to get a demo of the project because it's was classified military stuff.

 

Maher 

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 4K has been a part of film for a long time, so it's not whether it's valid or not. The question is when will the rest of the world catch up. I have a 4K RED Camera for about 2 years.
4K has some very practical applications in production especially with greenscreen. Simply more pixels are better for greenscreen mattes. if you had to pull a key from hair at 1080p it's not going to be as clean or forgiving as if you did it from a higher 4k res.

Also, there's other reason to use 4k on the front end like image capture and lens quality. The quality of the lens is immediately apparent when you go from an EF standard lens to a Zeiss CP.2 even with a 1080p like a Canon. So a Cine Lens on a PL Mount 4K camera is going to be evident in the image quality hi res film back image. I'm not debating camera just stating the facts behind why studios use 4K, 6K and 8K. Same ole rule, you can't get more out of what you put in "Garbage in, Garbage Out".   So I don't recommend up res'n but it depends on your audience. Some can't tell the difference but if you are talking to an industry film pro. You don't want to give them up-Res'd 4096 px and think it's the same image quality of a true clean cine image capture system. I mean, true cine people still don't like digital 4k as oppose to true photo chemical film telecine 4k. Some will only accept digital if it's RAW format with a talented colorist/grader.

As far as the public consumption of 4k, i share everyone else's concern. "Delivery and cost". Monitors have to come down in price. RED has a 4k player, I have a RED Rocket so I can drive real time 4K, but no display other than Apple 30". I would love to have a 4K monitor but it would be mainly for my personal project and content.

Concerning 3D... I think EIAS is the only way to do 4k ;-) I couldn't even render it in Maya.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...

Over the last few months, I've been keeping up on 4k news.  It looks likes the format for 4k television broadcasts will be 3840 x 2160 pixels.  However, the frame rate is still up-in-the-air; I've seen articles in which frame rates of 59.94 fps and 120 fps are being discussed.  Does anyone know anything more about the future of frame rates for 4k broadcast televison?

 

Thanks,

 

Joe

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  • 2 months later...

Here's a brief update on the state of UHD television.

 

SMPTE is expected to set standards for UHD broadcasts sometime next year (2015).  A few, limited broadcasts have already begun by companies like the BBC.  The Production Hub now features a news digest called "4kHUB-NEW!".  And, a 60-inch UHD television set has just appeared at the local Sam's Club discount store; that more than anything else shows that UHD TV is on the way!

 

Joe

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