Jump to content

New Mac Pro


bwcc
 Share

Recommended Posts

EIAS isn't the only app I use so it's not the only consideration - looking at the options for the new MacPro would would be best for EIAS?

 

Processor:

you can get 6 cores (12 virtual cores) that run at 3.5GHz or 12 cores (24 virtual cores) at 2.7 GHz ($3,000 extra). obviously the more cores the better but since they run slower is it worth the extra 3K? Does the difference in speed (3.5 - 2.7 GHz) make that much difference for Camera. Which features in EIAS would benefit from more cores vs more GHz? 

 

Graphics:

Choose from D500 or D700 - the upgrade is $600. Other than the additional memory (3GB to 6GB per card) does EIAS benefit from the upgrade? The D700 has more and faster processors, would this benefit EIAS or is just the additional memory to load bigger models. Would Bullet Simulations benefit from this upgrade or does it rely on the processor?

 

Memory:

16 - 32 - 64. I know Camera 64 would benefit from more memory, but would all this memory benefit EI? Since EI is still a 32bit is limited to 2GB? What benefit would we see with a 64 bit EIAS that could use all the memory?

 

Which would most benefit the speed of using EIAS - loading, manipulating, deforming big models / textures  - real time animation playback in EIAS. 

Processor, Graphics, Memory, waiting for EIAS 64 bit? all the above?

 

brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ola Brian!

 

A interesting link to read:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/12/you-can-spend-9599-on-a-mac-pro-but-should-you/

 

EIAS isn't the only app I use so it's not the only consideration - looking at the options for the new MacPro would be best for EIAS?

 

Let me try to answer, since Im interested on it too.

 

Processor:

you can get 6 cores (12 virtual cores) that run at 3.5GHz or 12 cores (24 virtual cores) at 2.7 GHz ($3,000 extra). obviously the more cores the better but since they run slower is it worth the extra 3K? Does the difference in speed (3.5 - 2.7 GHz) make that much difference for Camera. Which features in EIAS would benefit from more cores vs more GHz? 

 

Camera 9.1 for sure will love more threads and even more in the next version of Camera.

A friend mine did some maths and saw that probably the 8 cores (16 threads) will run 70% of the 12 (24 threads) with lower 2.7Ghz.

 

Graphics:

Choose from D500 or D700 - the upgrade is $600. Other than the additional memory (3GB to 6GB per card) does EIAS benefit from the upgrade? The D700 has more and faster processors, would this benefit EIAS or is just the additional memory to load bigger models. Would Bullet Simulations benefit from this upgrade or does it rely on the processor?

 

More Video Memory always help to load more geometry and textures on OpenGL, so, its always better, Convex precision operations from Bullet simulations use Multithreaded CPU, not GPU for now.

 

Memory:

16 - 32 - 64. I know Camera 64 would benefit from more memory, but would all this memory benefit EI? Since EI is still a 32bit is limited to 2GB? What benefit would we see with a 64 bit EIAS that could use all the memory?

 

My personal wish is 32GB, Camera_64 will be able to render bigger size renders with huge geometry, GI + Photons and Irradiance cache, everything will be loaded in the RAM easily.

EIAS 9.1 is 32 bits, but of course we want to change that, making Animator load and work with scenes limited only by the amount of your machine Ram.

 

Which would most benefit the speed of using EIAS - loading, manipulating, deforming big models / textures  - real time animation playback in EIAS. 

Processor, Graphics, Memory, waiting for EIAS 64 bit? all the above?

 

Right now, the new Mac Pro make me feel we will have a big change, I have an old Mac Pro with 8 cores with Nvidia GT8800, so, the change will be powerful, we have a mixed combo of huge changes, faster memory, really fast Hard drive, powerful and fast video card and more faster cores / threads than my actual machine.

And since I want to play with big scenes and complex simulations, I don't see any other way to do that.

 

My option will be some thing like: 8 cores, 32GB, 512GB HD, 3GB video card, a really powerful machine.

 

Hope that helps

 

Thanks

 

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks for the response! - I have the same computer, it's been a while since I have upgraded, this is one I was waiting for.

 

You seem to be leaning toward the 8 cores rather than the D700 card. I guess it's a trade off between rendering speed and drawing speed. Do you think the D700 is just overkill? Only useful in the most complex project with the biggest models? I think the D500 will be such an improvement over what I have maybe I won't wish for the D700.

 

Also, If I am using a plug-in to generate geometry - would the creation and manipulating be accelerated by more cores or more GHz? For example, when Blobmaker is generating the geometry it only uses 1 core. Is this because EI only uses 1 core? Will the plugins need to be multithreaded to use the additional cores while in EIAS? If the plugins were multithreaded would they use multiple cores to generate models even if EI was not multithreaded.

 

thanks!

brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right now, the new Mac Pro make me feel we will have a big change, I have an old Mac Pro with 8 cores with Nvidia GT8800, so, the change will be powerful, we have a mixed combo of huge changes, faster memory, really fast Hard drive, powerful and fast video card and more faster cores / threads than my actual machine.

And since I want to play with big scenes and complex simulations, I don't see any other way to do that.

 

My option will be some thing like: 8 cores, 32GB, 512GB HD, 3GB video card, a really powerful machine.

 

Hope that helps

 

Thanks

 

Tom

 

I have a MacPro, early 2008, QuadCore 2 x 3,2 GHz. I was about to order one of those new MacPro, hoping that it will render much faster than my 6 years old machine, but I was waiting for some benchmarks before committing such serious money.

 

But the few early reports I've read suggest that, if the new MacPro will be a real beast for HiRes video editing, rendering will only be twice as fast as my actual Mac, even for the costly top of the line model. I hardly believe that so few raw power improvement was made over a six years period. Sure, I'm comparing a 2 processors machine against a single CPU one, but at $10K for a full fledge top of the line new MacPro, I was hoping some better numbers.

 

That make me appreciate even more all the great work the EIAS team had achieved in that time span, just on software! My exact same machine render much faster than 2X in EIAS 9.1, no hardware upgrade could have beat that for the price of a few upgrades ;-)

 

Maher

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...That make me appreciate even more all the great work the EIAS team had achieved in that time span, just on software! My exact same machine render much faster than 2X in EIAS 9.1, no hardware upgrade could have beat that for the price of a few upgrades ;-)

 

Maher

Nice words. I'm sure they appreciate that you appreciate... Joyeuses Fêtes my friend!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I referenced that In the past that I have both the 2008 8 core 3.2ghz, 32 ram Mac pro with internal pcie 1tb system card (the owc accelsior 2) and upgraded video card the gtx 680 powerhouse card          AND   the 2012 iMac i7  3.4ghz with 32 gigs of ram and 680mx card

 

I was literally blown away at how much faster the iMac rendered things vs my 2008 machine.   Test renders and iterations were so fast that

it made more sense for me too concept and build on the iMac because i got to see my progress renders so much faster.  

 

thats 3.2ghz vs 3.4ghz and roughly a 50% speed increase….  when a 4 minute render times in at under 2 that adds up FAST.  Because of that fact

sitting next to me tested daily… my 2 cents on this is to go with a 6 core higher ghz machine with mid or high level cards  and 1 terabyte internal ssd. 

remember one thing not mentioned that i enjoy… ssd speed is nice 4 - 500 gbps  INTERNAL pciessd is BLAZING fast at close to 8 - 900gbps  external

ssd's will only be half that.   I partitioned mine by 3  my apps on one… one is a cache ONLY for AE…. and the third is my current projects folder.

AE with its new cacheing features really does work and with the internal pciessd its hard to describe fast.  So my old mac pro has proven better suited

for hard core AE work given the cache AND that my Sapphire plug ins FLY using Cuda from the gtx 680 card.    EI had some issues with the SSD that

Tomas helped me work around related to renderama and frame dispersion.  The drive was TOO fast… lol….  i had to split up folders amongst different drives…         Lastly, the reason id go with a fast iMac or the 6 core for EI \ 3d is that most 3d developers… and I sense Tomas as well…. see a lot of possibilities in leveraging that power in future updates of there software… so your machine may not get faster in the years to come BUT things will GO faster as software is updated to address those dual monster cards.  cpu clock speeds have bogged down some… the gpu is the next best vehicle too trust…. not to mention apple will and has totally tweaked out Final Cut to use those cards as an example.

 

The machine I'm describing is around 5k….    I'm really not interested in a 12 core machine with lowered ghz…  not at close to 9k. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ola Brian,

Some functions in Animator are not possible to be multithreaded, we added a few multithreaded tasks on Bullet for example.

It's the same case for plug-ins, most of them can't be multhreaded, we did some multithreaded experiments in possible future plug-ins releases, but only a few are able to use multiple threads.

Animator will benefit more and more of new code and faster hardware for sure, plug-ins too.

Thanks

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

And now an Ars Technica review, from the point of view of a 3D artist, showing that the Mac Pro has some issues, price/power-wise, in this field.

 

A pro with serious workstation needs reviews Apple’s 2013 Mac ProApple’s latest Mac Pro is powerful, but it isn’t always a clear upgrade.

 

(One better takes a look at the readers' comments. Usually there are insights to note there)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too was looking at a major upgrade to the Mac Pro.

I've been waiting since the first announcement that the release would be later this year (2013). Turned out to be December. (that's the end of the year!)

Only to find that March 2014 would be the soonest I could possibly even consider owning a Mac Pro.

 

Right at that point I was confused or if I was disappointed, just peed off. Then it turns out it is going to cost.. a lot!

 

There is a fair bit of speculation as to what can be done on the upgrade side of the Mac Pro. It would stand to reason that it should be easily upgraded. But is it?

I don't think anyone knows since not too many people have their hands on one.

I think at this point only ram is interchangeable.

 

I have read and researched this to the best of my knowledge.

 

I've bought quite a lot of Mac Hardware for my work over a period of years. But I'd say I have to see it before I would pay out between $6000 - $9000 before I'd own it.

 

I was stuck at a turning point where my software had out grown my hardware. It happens visa versa from time to time.

 

After 25 years on Mac I thought I'd give Windows 7 a try. 

 

I went out and set up a box with a NVIDIA GeForce GTX760 GPU (that, ironically, works in the old Mac Pro!) And wow! Now EIAS is responsive.

$285. New, Cuda (a bit) etc. I'm yet to team that up with a CPU of my choice.

 

I've attached  a link to an interesting article below re Mac Pro. The highlight of interest for me I have also inserted below.

 

These are just my thoughts so far. Frankly I hate Windows but when it comes to bang for buck I'm not sure apple Mac Pro is it. Yet?

Who knows, no one has one!!

 

http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/reviews/creative-hardware/apple-mac-pro-2013-review-with-benchmarks/

 

Nvidia graphics cards as AE’s ray-traced renderer (which delivers the best results for 3D elements) is only accelerated by graphics card through CUDA. Those with AMD graphics are at an immediate disadvantage, as the ray-traced renderer has to join all of the other tasks being worked on by the GPU.
 
"This meant that the Mac Pro took over four hours to render a scene that a top-spec MacBook Pro (with an Nvidia GeForce GT 750M graphics chip) chomped through in just over an hour. The same scene without the Cinema 4D content took over an hour (versus just seven and a half minutes on the MacBook Pro).
 
Adobe says that it can't create a version of its ray-traced renderer that’s not tied to Nvidia hardware, as it's been created in scratch using CUDA. However, the company says that "the ray-traced 3D renderer has a rather limited feature set compared with the 3D capabilities of Cinema 4D (now included with After Effects), which does not depend on any specific GPU technology at all". Though as we mentioned, Cinema 4D is only tapping one of the cards."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

using a MacPro from 2008 here, so thinking just about anything will be an improvement. Still trying to decide between better CPU (6 or 8 core) or better GPU (D500 or D700).

 

I know what the CPU will do - more cores faster rendering. But, on the graphics, knowing that the that GPU rendering is not going to happen anytime soon, the D500 has 3GB memory per GPU and the D700 has 6GB memory per GPU - what would be the difference in EIAS? would it use all 12GB of memory to draw openGL models and textures? would it use the memory from both cards or just one? - is the only difference to EIAS between D500 and D700 the ability hold larger models and textures in memory so they could be manipulated in realtime? I use a lot of really big models - millions of polygons - I like using EI and rendering is fast but setting up scenes with big models is slow...

 

Also, from what I have read the CPU is upgradeable - doesn't make sense to do it now because the cost would be more than what Apple is charging. But, in a couple of years when the price of the 12-core comes down you could upgrade  - I think you are stuck with the GPU's, not sure.

 

brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ola Brian!

These video card options still nebulous for me, I'm planning to buy the D700, to allow me to Study EIAS power with future implementations and other softwares around.

I just found this post around on OpenGL forum:

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/showthread.php/179404-Can-OpenGL-access-all-the-memory-on-a-single-4GB-VRAM-GPU

Thanks

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Steve,

I find it a lot more responsive with lots of polygons. Moving around the scene with lots of trees etc.

Before I was switching on and off a lot anything that was high poly. now I don't seem to have to.

Working on windows is a bit of a change though in EIAS!

Multiple monitors is a pain, same with FormZ 7.

Still really testing things out though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...