Form Z to EIAS 9.1

[bwcc]

Having trouble getting a model from Form Z to EIAS 9.1. The model comes in but it will not smooth shade. I have tried several export faceting options and formats. Depending on the export, the model will have some areas smooth but always some areas where the faceting is visible.

 

any idea?

 

thanks

brian

[S. Houtzager]

Hey Brian,

 

Are you starting with a Smooth or Facetted model in FormZ?  You could convert the model in FormZ to Facetted and control the mesh in the process. 

 

Can you attach a picture of it?  if it is a very curvy form then you will need to take it into Modeler and tesselate the form.  I have done this many times over the years and have always been able to get every model in.

 

Best!

[bwcc]

the model I'm trying to export now is an imported .stp (edited a bit in FormZ) then exported to FACT. I am testing FormZ to see how it works with EIAS. Exporting from Modeler isn't really an option, I am looking at FormZ as solution to replace Modeler so I can upgrade my OS. I need something that can import and edit CAD files (STP, IGES etc.) and be able to build some hard surface models. I used FormZ maybe like 18 years ago? - It looks good but I really need easy workflow with EIAS.

 

this is a screen grab of the model in FormZ - fairly simple.

http://www.brianwhite.cc/temp/formz.jpg

 

these are renderings from EIAS

http://www.brianwhite.cc/temp/Project9_17.jpg

http://www.brianwhite.cc/temp/Project9_19.jpg

 

 

within FormZ, in Export/Options/Facetting Options, you can choose "Use Objects Display Resolution" I was able to set a Custom Faceting Scheme and it seems to export and facet to those settings but it won't completely smooth shade.

 

If I override the display Resolution and set the angle, edge length and "additional facetting" doesn't seem to work at all.

 

Is there a better way to set the tessellation? Could the problem be the original imported STP? I have tried to export as OBJ and 3DS also.

 

thanks so much! any help is appreciated
brian

[S. Houtzager]

Hey Brian,

 

The model looks clean. This one needs EI Modeler.

 

Export out of FZ a SAT V6.

 

Import that into EI modeler and set the tesselation settings to U=6 and V=6 normal tolerance 2.5 degrees.

 

Export as a fact.

[Brian]

I needed to upgrade my system just like you and was getting very nervous because I couldn't find any NURBS modeler that would export nice meshes. Sure, all the programs export pretty meshes for wilreframe, but the shading would always be screwed up! I was in disbelief that EI modeler was the ONLY Nurbs modeler for Mac that worked.

 

I tried Bonzia, a nice little program (really is a nice program for the money), but realized for my modeling needs I had to have something a bit more robust. I tried Form•Z (last time I had used that program was version 2.8 i think). But I had the same problem as you with the tesselation.

 

I contacted AutoDesSys and they said they knew it was a problem when exporting into another renderer and were working on it.

 

I even thought of trying AutoCad. But I tried a friends copy and the export wasn't all that great.

 

Then, a friend of mine told me Rhino was in Beta for the Mac.

 

BOOM! Problem was solved!!!

 

I cannot praise Rhino for Mac enough. Don't rely on it since it's in Beta. But get on the beta team and enjoy PERFECT obj (I wish it exported good FBX but that's OK) models right into the wonderful new EI Import system!

 

It's a dream to use. Just have a backup plan for your modeling in case there's something weird with one of the beta builds.

 

It's great. The tesselation is wonderful.

 

ALMOST as good as EI modeler. Better in some ways, but Modeler was an AMAZING program.

 

Anyway, I've been through your hell and just wanted to share with you (and the rest of the EI community) the solution I found.

 

Best of luck to you!

[bwcc]

thanks for the input! - I have been experimenting with Rhino and I do like it. The beta builds now no longer work in 10.6. So I have to upgrade the OS to continue with the beta.

 

I need a modeler to be able to import a (stp, igs, sat) cleanly be able to make edits to model and export to fact or obj. the last Rhino beta I downloaded didn't have the import implemented yet. 

 

I have ViaCAD and it tessellates smooth and exports fact, but ugh... it is hard to use and crashes a lot. I have tried TurboCAD (It's the same app as ViaCAD)

 

I do think Rhino is the best solution - Do you know if they have any import(s) implemented yet?

 

thanks,

brian

[S. Houtzager]

I use Rhino a good bit myself and have it on a PC and mac.  It  meshes very well but there are some objects that I have to use EIM on.  So I keep an old computer around just for EIM and other old programs that do not run on the latest OS. 

[Be.eM]

I still use FZ for all my modeling work, and EIAS for rendering. It is possible to get FZ models shade properly in EIAS, but only with the custom settings you mentioned above. For smooth surfaces, the angle needs to be between 5 and 10 degrees, and the maximum segment length and surface deviation always need to be adapted to the dimensions of the object in question. BTW, I'm still using FZ 6, I have but don't use FZ 7 yet.

 

Sometimes, with complex CAD models, there are objects that still show flaws on the rendered surface, which can't be cured by whatever settings I use. I always export these to SAT, open them in Shark FX (alternatively: ViaCAD), and export from there. ALWAYS works. The geometry out of SFX is very good, just misses the other advantages of an FZ export (object names, groups).

 

Bernd

[bwcc]

I actually used FormZ about 20 years ago - it was the first modeler I ever used, not counting Ray Dream Designer. It was interesting to see it again, it's different (much better) but some things are exactly the same. I think exporting facetted models was a problem then too. FormZ is a really nice modeler, it is so disappointing that the export is still a problem. I have tried a number of options on angle and maximum segment length on a number of different models. The mesh in wireframe looks really good, very dense small polys. The mesh looks nearly identical to an export from ViaCAD or EI Modeler (which render perfectly) . For some reason the model will always have some part that does not render smooth.

 

I built a partition, installed OS 10.8 and downloaded the beta of Rhino - it's really good... The current build does import igs but not yet stp or sat - I guess the released version will include those. The obj export of the igs file was perfect. It still doesn't feel as easy to use as EI Modeler but it does so much more and does it much better. Really wish I had some idea of when it would be released. 

 

brian

[Brian]

Wow! Ray Dream.... haha Ray Dream Designer 2 was my first 3D package. Good Times............

 

Anyway,

 

Good to hear the export for your igs file was clean.

 

Steven,

What kind of models do you need Modeler for? Just for Uber Nurbs? I think there's a plug-in now called t-splines for Rhino that is FULL sub-d modeling. But maybe it's not as good. I haven't tried it yet.

 

Bernd,

When I tried Form•Z last time, the problem I was having was "tearing" between the Blends and Surfaces (where ever I used a fillet). The Polys weren't matching up, giving me slices between surfaces. Was there a setting I was missing?

[S. Houtzager]

Hey Brian,

 

I use EI modeler for the organic products I sometimes get like this one http://intuitionusa.com/Popups_Renderings/femchec.html.  The logotype creates issues with some modelers as polygons will stray across the text. I looked at T-splines but it is a little pricey. It is on my Christmas list. 

[Brian]

Did you make the main shape with Uber Nurbs and then start cutting and adding to that?

[S. Houtzager]

I did not create that model, I just get SolidWorks models.  Haven't heard the term Uber in quite some time!! I remember when everything was getting named Uber.

[bwcc]

Steve - yeah that's exactly the same kind of models I get also. I've been using ViaCAD Pro to convert CAD models and have tried to build some models from photos, but it it hard to use and a little buggy. I also use Modo for sub-d. Seems like Rhino will probably be the way to go.

 

You mentioned the model was from SolidWorks. Does Rhino import SolidWorks native files? Do they need to be converted to something first? Do you know if the Mac beta will import SolidWorks?

 

brian

[S. Houtzager]

Yep, Rhino on Windows imports SolidWorks native part and assembly files. No converting. Rhino Mac does not yet. 

 

I am a big fan of Rhino and like to model with it.  I did this several years ago just for fun http://intuitionusa.com/Popups_Renderings/humidifier.html. Some of those are rendered with EI. The Panel Tools are cool too. 

[Brian]

Steven,

 

Yeah, the "Uber" thing was pretty popular there for a while ha.

[Be.eM]

Bernd,

When I tried Form•Z last time, the problem I was having was "tearing" between the Blends and Surfaces (where ever I used a fillet). The Polys weren't matching up, giving me slices between surfaces. Was there a setting I was missing?

 

Brian,

 

I've tried to catch it all in one picture...

 

For this example, I did the faceting already within FormZ, but the same thing happens when exporting smooth geometry from FormZ using the corresponding options. I believe the key is the option "Additional Faceting", which is something EI Modeler does as well. The attached picture shows simple rounded cubes, the first left smooth, the other ones converted to facetted. From those facetted ones, the leftmost one is without additional faceting, all the others with this option and different parameters. I have NOT adjusted any resolution parameters on these cubes, it's only for showing the principles. Does this help?

 

 

Bernd

[Brian]

Bernd,

 

That's really good to know. Thanks!

[HMeyers]

After reading this thread I called FormZ - yesterday (Sept 25th) - and talked with Matt Holewinski. I gave Matt the link to the discussion to look over and take back to the FZ folks so they realize there are still a number of animators who build models in FZ to use with EIAS, and that some of the same issues from 18+ years ago still exist even though both programs have evolved tremendously. 

 

Over the last couple of years I contacted FZ almost on a weekly basis bringing up issues I was having … the tech guys seemed to always find a solution that worked … things I never would have thought to do. The first step was converting a smooth object to facetted because for some reason the smooth object in FormZ doesn't translate well with EIAS. I still use TRANSPORTER even though I was told that was probably not necessary. It seems to clear up a number of issues.

 

I also loved FZ's text beveling, which - years ago - was very simple, worked beautifully with most fonts and imported into EIAS without a hitch. Logos and floating text, as any model looks better with a bevel. In the newer versions of FormZ they removed the TEXT beveling option and hopefully they will re-implement it. However, the newest versions of FormZ will surprise a lot of long time users who abandoned it for other modelers. And for the most part, a lot of the strange shapes and objects, including cabbage leaves and a parachute-like baby blanket, have worked well when brought into EIAS - as FACT models.

 

Oh … I wanted to chime in on the STP comment also in this thread. Last year I had a client send me an STP/Cad model of a boiler as recommended by the FormZ tech folk … they client was supposed to send me "solid-well formed" STP parts … they didn't. Instead I wound up with hundreds of thousands of segmented pieces which took me days to "join" in FormZ, a very long story. However, once joined and labeled I was able to send everything over to EIAS … and the animation results were stunning.

 

Here is a link to the final animation … It's not super high quality … but you certainly understand all that went into the making of this piece.

 

 

I hope you enjoy it …

 

Hal

Hal Meyers

hmeyers1@mac.com

[Tomas Egger]

Hey Hal!

 

Great you are doing a lot of work and making clients happy, even when they send bad geometry :)

 

Thanks

 

Tom